Grandparent rights?

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Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:22 pm

Hi I have previously posted under a different topics about my awful relationship with my in-laws. I received great support and advice before and I guess I need reassurance again. I'm very stressed due to my FIL threatening me today, he told me during the week that he was seeking legal advice and was going to bring me to court to have visits with my baby without me. Does anyone know if he can do this?

Long story short, he hasn'tq seen my LO since she was 3months (except once when OH took her without me knowing), I have continually invited my in-laws to visit LO but they declined every time. They have requested LO visits them only in their home, which I have declined as I have been continuously verbally abused by them. I have offered over 20 invites to meet in a mutual public location which have also been declined. Today I practically begged them to visit as I just can't cope any more with the abuse stating thatci am denying them visits and denying them be part of LO life.

They agreed to come to my home, I had my mother with me as I am not comfortable with them. I took the opportunity to ask if we could be civil and I was answered by "we came to see the baby not to listen to bullshit" my mother stepped in and said "my daughter didn't saying anything that resembles bullshit' FIL told her to shut up, he then walked towards my mother who was holding LO and again told her to shut up, I stood in from of my man and LO and asked him not to speak to my mother like that and FIL then threatened to throw me through the window, he was intimidating and came right into my personal space and eyeballed me. I pointed out that he was threatening and I asked him to leave which he did. But I'm afraid of him, he has a key which I text and asked for it back. Long story short again (sorry) can this man seriously have grandparents rights???

I text him when he left and said I wanted to formally record his threat towards me in a text, as he was formally going to bring me to court. He text back which is good for my formal record saying it was a figure of speech like when you tell someone your going to kill them. And he included that he was never hit a woman and never would. At least I have it in text that he didn't deny saying it.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby Shoelover » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:41 pm

Hi iwishiwas. God he sounds like a piece of work. I'm not sure if they have any rights as such but I would seek legal advice just to have yourself covered. You poor thing it's an awful situation to be in. Try not to worry about it too much. My brother is spilt from his wife and he was only given access to him 2 days a week so I can't see how grandparents would have any rights if u went to court!
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:49 pm

Thanks shoelover, I'm just so worried now, I know there is a legal bill for grandparents but I'm just not sure if they can decide where they want their visits, I'm hoping as I've never denied them visits except in their own home that I can't be taken to court. I'm going to citizens information in the morning. I think I sound Like an awful person but my LO deserves better and I'm ashamed they are her grandparents. They are bad mouthing me all over town, as I keep hearing back from people that I won't allow them see their granddaughter.. it's such a horrible situation. I just wish they would have respect for us and we can be civil.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby LydiaHopeful » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:33 am

Sounds like a terrible situation and horrible people. Really if they cant be bothered to meet your lo in public or in your home it means they dont really care about seeing her as they have given up access willingly on the basis they cant take her to their own house. I dont think any grandparents have the right to dictate to you where you should bring your child to see them. No court would grant them this permission. If they tried to bring you to court and if they were ever given access its going to be supervised by you anyway. I have good relationship with my inlaws and parents and i have never left her alone with them in their house so dont worry i cant see in a million years how they think they havr the right to demand this kind of visitation. You poor poor thing they have no respect for you i cant imagine how you put up with this! Dont stress you sound like a super mammy and you have done your best to compromise. Get your legal advice and speak to citizens info but dont let them get you down you have gone above and beyond no one has the right to threaten you. If it was me id never let them see her they sound horrific and not the type of people you want your baby near. Does your babies dad have any input would he not speak to them about this ? Stay strong you sound like a kind and good person its a pity these inlaws are so disgusting to treat you in this manner. If grandparents have rights legally its not the kind of rights that are not in best interest of your baby...dont stress about it. They are not worth a second of your time.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:38 am

Lydiahopefull thank you do much, your message definitely made me feel much better.
My SIL has ttc issues which started this whole argument with in-laws, she couldn't handle my pregnancy, ignored me while pregnant. Then we had a massive row when LO was 3months, when I asked SIL to come up and meet LO for first time. She pretty much nearly belives I got pregnant to rub her nose in it and thinks I was inconsiderate to her situation. This led FIL to fall out with me as SIL told him I kicked her out of my house, when honestly she went nuts began cursing and shouting and said she was leaving so I got up and opened the door and said well go. Then MIL called to my house and cursed and shouted at me, I was a first time mother and holding my 3month old in my arms and I never even raised my voice to any of them. OH and I argued on and off since this, and I need to add that I received texts form all in-laws which were plentiful and abusive. OH I guess tried to stand up for me but we would just argue a lot due to it. When LO was 6 months OH betrayed my trust and took LO to his parents after we agreed that they couldn't dictate excluding me from her life with them. We broke up for over a month and our relationship is still strained. OH has been to councillors and is now very depressed, this has worn him down so much it breaks my heart. He recently text his parents to Say he feels suicidal, and cannot cope with this whole situation, they sent a few days of supportive texts to him and it is mostly the reason they finally called to our home yesterday, OH froze as his father intimidated myself and my mother. It's like he is broken, he supports me but I feel as if he is dying before my eyes, I really miss my old OH and I feel as if this deep dark depression is winning and I'm losing him. He started antidepressants a few months ago and they are helping a bit. I don't know where he would stand on visiting rights if a judge asked.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby tippergirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:02 am

I attend the family law court here and there with work. I'm no expert but from what I have seen they would find it hard enough to get the case listed and if it was it would be a tough battle for them even if it was entertained.

It may be worth looking at getting a safety order in relation to the threats to you. I'd consider it carefully though as it might just add fuel to the fire. Their behaviour is awful. It's added stress that's not needed in any family.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby LydiaHopeful » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:46 pm

I wish it was easier for you it sounds like that family are toxic and have ruined so much for you. Would you suggest mediation as a last throw at sorting something out. I wouldnt agree to anytime away from your baby alone with them maybe one family dinner a month. If they wont accept that i honestly would speak to your oh to try move on as a family without them and let them know when they are ready to be civil you will be there . Your poor oh is suffering because of them too. Dont lose your family because of them. I understand ypur sil has problems but none of it is your fault and its disgusting to treat your family like this. I hope you find some resolution but please know you have done nothing wrong x
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:09 pm

Well turns out that SIL gave birth today, twins very premature. She never even told OH she was pregnant. Happy for her but also upset that my OH is there for her and still to this day she has not congratulated us on our baby or even seen our LO. FIL is referring to me as "a thing" so I think I am in my rights to say I want my baby no where near that man.

Citizens info said to just record everything but as long as I dont refuse visits they cannot apply for rights, also the first step is mediation but FIL won't entertain this. It sounds bad but hopefully now that his daughter has two babies he will leave my baby alone. He clearly doesn't respect my baby with his behaviour in her presence, I can only imagine if he lost the plot if I wasn't there. I need to add this man pulled my little brother up by the arm and threw him out of his house ten years ago when my brother was 3, and his reason was that my 3year old brother interrupted him when he was speaking!
It's the second time he threatened me now so I am going to make a statement in the garda station as citizens information said I have a responsibility to keep my child safe and it's up to me to record things and I could be prosecuted for neglected if FIL ever hurts her and I know of his intimidating history.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby tippergirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:40 pm

The chances of you being prosecuted in those circumstances are highly unlikely. If you are making a statement of complaint to the guards it's usually taken with a view to pursuing a prosecution.

That's so sad that your sil gave birth to twins today and her brother wasn't told she was pregnant. So strange! Your father in law sounds like an aggressive man. Manhandling a young child like that...
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby tippergirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:42 pm

Just to add I work in the area of child protection and it's extremely difficult to get a prosecution for child neglect against a person who has been neglecting a child long term never mind a protective mother who was aware of aggressive behaviour in a grandparent.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby LydiaHopeful » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:36 pm

Omg how.odd of your SIL !!!! I hope her and the babies are okay please god they thrive and his family leave you and your precious baby alone. Im glad she finally got her babies maybe she will realise how badly she behaved in time.....probably not though. I hope your OH is okay he seems to be pushed out just because you had a baby before her. Tippergirl is right they wouldnt have a case against you hopefully you can just separate yourself from.the whole situation you cant subject your baby to that kind of behaviour
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby mabsebabes » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:38 am

You poor thing. At least you've got the advice now. My heart is breaking for your poor husband. His own family treating him like that. Of course we all wish his sister and the babies the best. I really hope that they realise what they've put you all through.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby Itwillhappen » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:44 am

I would kill them all with kindness. Send her flowers and an over the top congratulations note. One day they will realise how appalling their behaviour is and you can be proud of your actions.
Keep offering the grandparents visits on your terms in your house or in public and as they keep refusing it's their loss not yours.
my grandmother died when I was 3.my other grandparent were deceased before I was born so as much as I would love to have had them in my life I got on just fine without them.
All your daughter needs is loving parents, anything else is a bonus.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:53 am

Thank you everyone, I'm just so stressed over this whole situation, my LO is one after Christmas and I can honestly say that so much of my baby memories are tangled with hurt pain and sadness. I have a photo a day book for my LO which I said I'd do as a visual diary until she was one and now looking through it is so hard as I remember awful things with what looked like happy photos.. at least my LO will never know this.

I have sent my SIL a text from OH phone, (I deleted and blocked her/BIL number a few months ago due to abusive texts)I just let her know I'm here if she needs anything, sent her support and love, my heart is breaking for her and her little tiny babies. I always hoped she would have a baby and cop on at how horrible she treated me, she's in hospital now the day after delivery, but when I was in hospital the day after my delivery I had my OH phone me in tears over her behaviour towards him and I then had a number of abusive texts from her and BIL. I'm obviously still very hurt but I can't be fake with kindness, but no matter how i've been treated I wouldn't treat anyone else like that. Never let how you've been ill treated change how you act is my philosophy.

Thanks for your advice ladies, I've decided to offer a weekly visit to grandparents in a public location only, there is no point in allowing they intimidate and verbally abused me behind closed doors and then tell everyone we know that I'm a horrible person as I won't allow visits. They I'm sure will 99% turn down any offer of a public location visit, as FIL stressed he "doesn't do that, bring that child down to him".
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby justCANTwait » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:48 pm

That's just a great philosophy to have. It's so sad what's happening. I often wondered how you were, I'm so glad that you're back with your husband, you need the strength of each other right now, hopefully watching your beautiful little daughter grow up will help with the pain. I really genuinely wish you every single ounce of happiness.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:40 pm

Oh justCantwait that is so nice of you to say, it's been such a hard year for myself and OH. Our relationship is not exactly perfect yet but at least we know that through everything we never stopped loving each other. 12 years together and a family was our dream, we now have respect and trust, I can't ask him to protect me from his family but he respects that I can't have any part of them. I never realised before how hard it is to restart a relationship and I have total respect for anyone who has.

We separated for a month, he is living with us again since but we are yet to share a room again, we have been more friends than partners but we have recently decided to have a date a week, I hope to establish closeness again, neither of us want this distance but there is just so much hurt still. We would like more children but we realise our relationship needs to be whole again first..
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby justCANTwait » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:52 am

The easy thing to do would be to break up but not necessarily the right thing. You are trying that's really all that matters. Nobody's relationship is perfect. It takes the bigger person to trust again which is what you are doing. I know Im not in the same situation but I know what it's like to either be taken for granted or to take someone for granted. good luck huni you deserve it. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your little Mela and your lovely hubby. Xxx
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby iwishiwas » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:32 pm

Short lived happiness, OH packed up and left today. He feels as if I wanted his dad to be provoked,apparently by my body language towards him when he arrived to my home. It is true my body language was standoffish, as the in-laws drove past my house then drove back, parked outside for ten min, then FIL got out of the car and banged my sitting room window firmly (like I don't have X2 door knockers), he opened my portch all the way and woulnt stand in even tho I asked him twice, he asked to speak to his son, I called for him and asked FIL again to stand in as it was cold, he said no, so I said well I'm closing the door over as LO is sick but I'd rather you stood in and closed the porch, he declined, and his greeting was to shout at OH as to why didn't he answer his phone and do we have company, OH said yes and told him my mam, FIL then slammed the portch and went and drove up the road before again returning and thus this both in-laws got out of the car, again banged my window firmly and I answered the door and invited them both in and this is the preceding story to my first post, so yes my body language was cold!!! So upset and angry, more angry!! Can't believe my OH believes I wanted this, I told him how much I wanted one civil meeting and then he could hopefully have a nice Xmas and they could be involved. I feel like I am such an idiot. Back to my original fear of OH having her and her being around in-laws without me. Can't believe I was stupid enough to go out and get everything breastfeeding related for SIL in shops yesterday as OH asked me too. It's official that this family have now ruined the whole first year of my baby's life. Today we were ment to put up our tree and go to see santy.
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby Nervousnelly » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:38 pm

You poor poor soul. You are doing nothing wrong, in fact you are to be admired for your restraint- I don't think I could be as strong. There is nothing I can say to make you feel better but I'm sending you lots of hugs and support xxx
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Re: Grandparent rights?

Postby Itwillhappen » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:18 pm

Sorry but that whole family seem like they have a lot of issues.
Try not to let them annoy you just focus on and enjoy your little one.
If things dint work out with oh then you need a plan in place for when and where he sees your daughter. Surely he would only want to protect his daughter though and not let any harm come to her so she should be safe when she's with him? If you don't think that's the case then you really need to seek legal help.
Best of luck x
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